No, I responded. That's not how to choose a college. "Well then what should I focus on in a college?" she replied, to which I said:
You want to go to the best school you can that feels right for you. After you visit enough schools, folks generally just "know" it. At a minimum, you should be able to rule some out -- both XXX and YYY just exuded such elitism/class issues for me that I feared I'd never fit in completely -- I still applied to one of the two, and am grateful it did not offer me admission. And "feels right" means a whole lot of things depending on who you are and how you're wired--size of student population, location (urban v rural, east/west, all of it), breadth (or specificity) of academic offerings, academic focus and intensity (things like Chicago's core), importance of athletics and Greek life on campus (or lack thereof), class size, sense of elitism/class issues on campus ... in short, is this a school where I will feel nurtured and safe, and will it help me develop into the adult I'd like to become? [And, of course, there's the financial issues.]Your further advice on this question would be welcome.
Use the opportunities afforded to spend overnight on campus with students without your family around (I did post-admission, pre-acceptance) -- you need to see how it feels to be immersed in these places.
Your advice may sound, but it depends on the career paths that our reader is considering. If she is considering, say, business or pre-law, or something else that is generalist and may be available at a wide group of colleges, then you're absolutely right. But if the career paths are sufficiently specialized, you may be wrong. Put another way: I was very glad that I chose to attend a state school which I loved, but if I'd been leaning heavily toward a specialized field, I would have looked harder at more specialized schools.
ReplyDeleteOn that note: I was very happy with the choice I made, attending a large state school (Georgia) for undergrad. It was a good fit for me, and the honors program made it a lot smaller in critical ways. And (1) I got into great law schools and (2) had no debt when I left undergrad. If you know that you will probably be getting a professional degree after undergrad, choosing a good state school that has an honors program and then "spending" your debt for grad school makes a lot of sense. Caveat, though: there are people who just need a smaller school. If you'd dislike being at a big school, this would not work.
I agree with Jenn! - Further- 1. if you have a specialized field (like my father), then you're going to apply to a school with 80 students and a school with 25,000 students (and eventually go to both). 2. It's all about the Benjamins- watch your spending. If your parents can pay your way, then you're lucky. Otherwise, you're like me and you need to find either a great state school or a rich private school. I found the latter, but I still have a little undergrad debt. My law school debt is what is really the killer. 3. If you want professors to know you, a state school may not the best route since many of the classes are so large. 4. Never underestimate the local community college for the foundation.
ReplyDeleteObviously, I have a lot of opinions and advice on this topic, but I'll keep it simple. Yes, the "gut feeling" truly does work for most students when they visit a campus, provided that they do more than just take the tour. Visit a class, talk to a professor, stay overnight, attend a concert, get a sense of the campus culture. You'll figure out pretty quickly if it's the right place for you.
ReplyDeleteBut Jenn's right that, for some students, potential career paths may and should be an important variable in choosing a college. Of course, many students will change their major during their time in college, or they may wind up in a career that has nothing to do with what they studied in college. But if you're seriously considering being, say, an engineer or an accountant or a physical therapist, it makes no sense to consider a school that doesn't even offer a program in that area. (My university didn't offer a Communications program until this year, yet for years, I had freshman advisees who came here expecting to study Communications. Some of them stayed and became English majors, but the others all wound up transferring. If they'd done better research before they'd applied, they might have been spared that hassle and disappointment.)
As someone who transferred after freshman year (and thereby implicitly made the "wrong" choice the first time around), I have some insights here. I initially chose a school because it was cheap and bucolic. I didn't focus enough on the people who were there. I should have thought much more practically: pretty is nice, but after one year I learned that I needed to be in a more urban/cosmopolitan setting, both in terms of geography and student population. Quasi-relatedly: I never realized how awkward it would be to be among so few Jews. I also learned that although the school I attended that first year was supposedly very rigorous academically, it wasn't nearly nerdy enough for me. I made a great decision to leave, and I now consider my freshman year my "year abroad." These are all very subjective things, and I suspect the answer to this particular person's question depends a lot on what she wants to study and what "tier" of school she is looking at.
ReplyDeleteThen let me clarify: the career paths being considered are journalism and veterinary science. For the former, it's more important that you learn to write well in general than that you take preprofessional classes (and are at a school with a decent at-least-weekly newspaper); for the latter I understand it's like med school -- just take your science prereqs as an undergrad, and the career learning takes place in grad school.
ReplyDeleteI want to stress the importance of that first paragraph: every campus has some pretty buildings and something called a quad. It's the student body and campus culture which sets them apart. You need to immerse yourself a bit to understand the differences.
ReplyDeleteOne resource current applicants have that most of us didn't: the internet. You can follow the student newspapers at the various schools all year round to get a sense of what's going on and what matters at each school. I'd do that.
Whatever school you go to, don't just major in English to learn to write. As an English major, this is my first piece of advice to anyone. Make sure you're getting entrenched in tech, communications/pr, poli sci, heck, combine your two foci into science writing so you can kill two birds with one class. It'll only benefit you to have a background in the different types of writing you might be asked to do. I am an old fogey, an immigrant to the digital generation's landscape, so you may already be well-versed in writing for online publications. But being a good writer and a good thinker doesn't necessarily pave your road with job offers.
ReplyDeleteIf you're leaning towards vet school, I would have to think that a larger research university would be a good place to start making contacts to go to grad school.
In case it isn't clear, going to a large state school was perfect for me and I advocate it for anyone who can advocate for him/herself. There are ways to make the large school environment feel smaller.
I really recommend thinking very hard about the money. A journalism career does not pay highly enough to justify $100,000 or more in debt. And a veterinary program will require many more years in school, thus costing even more money. I don't want to dissuade the student from pursuing these programs, but rather wake them up to the fact that they should be cognizant of cost.
ReplyDeleteLook carefully at the state schools in your state. If you're lucky, one of them particularly excels in either or both of these fields (I assume a person wanting to be a vet majors in a science field as an undergrad). Find a cost-effective school in state, and go visit and see how you like it.
If money is no object--if you are a trustafarian or have wealthy parents who can write a $50,000 check annually without wincing, then by all means visit several of the Ivies or spendy privates that you might be interested in.
If money is an issue, seriously consider the local community college as a starting point. I teach at such a school, and my students are getting top notch instruction in their basic requirements and transferring to a 4 year school after a year or 18 months. Class sizes can be smaller (especially for math; a colleague tells me he teaches usually 12-14 students per class) and the cost is significantly smaller. Look for a CC that has a demostrated track record of transferability of courses, and a relationship with the nearby 4 year institutions. This could cut thousands of dollars off your bill...and when an employer looks at your resume, what they will see is the name of your four year institution, not how you spent your first year at a CC.
I never set foot on the campus, if you can call it a campus, of George Washington until the day I arrived there my freshmen year. It worked out well for me. BTW, the same applies for where I went to grad school, Syracuse.
ReplyDelete1. Be really leery of debt for undergrad unless you're pretty sure you want to do something where the undergrad degree is both your entry into the field and also pretty financially remunerative (nursing, accounting, maybe engineering). I've heard that a good rule of thumb is to make sure your total debt is less than your expected first year salary but I'd lean on the side of conservative there.
ReplyDelete2. Totally agreed on making sure the school has a real program (not just a couple of classes) in what you're interested in. I got interested in a particular field while I was an underclassman and couldn't pursue it the way I would've liked because it simply didn't exist at my school.
3. If you're an excellent student (and I'm guessing the correspondent in question is), I would really try to go to the best school where you'll be a "big fish" academically. A lot of schools have some kind of big kahuna scholarship where they make all kinds of things available to you -- not just money, but travel and opportunities. Schools really lavish a lot of attention on students they believe are good candidates for Fulbrights, Rhodes Scholarships, etc. And I had a few friends in college who noticed the reverse -- by the time we graduated they had the types of resumes and academic careers that might have made them realistic candidates for some of these things, but because they weren't obvious "stars" going in, or in their first year, they didn't get the support they might otherwise have gotten.
I went to a big school--Syracuse--and changed my major after my freshman year. During my freshman year, I only took one or two introductory courses toward my major (Photography), and realized I was NOT enjoying life in the darkroom (yes, this was pre-digital days). Because I was in the Communications school, I had many other majors from which to choose, and ended up in Magazine Journalism (I could have switched to any other major, but the Communications school was my draw to Syracuse). The good thing about Syracuse, and many other schools like it, is that you are required to complete a Liberal Arts core, which exposes you to all of the basic subjects like math, science, and English. In addition, there were electives. My point is this, and echoes many of the other people who have commented: it's quite possible that you will change your major. College is a chance to learn about yourself, meet new people, people with different interests, etc. I also suggest that you look into how the school may assist you with summer internships--some schools have wonderful connections that can later on ease the pain of a job search.
ReplyDeleteGood luck with your search. It's true...you will know the right school when you arrive there.
I originally gravitated towards my college because it was known for a great English department (and because it was a state school that my family could afford without loans) but I also really loved the rural location. The size of the school was important to me - I went to a large high school, and didn't want to get lost at a large college. And in the end, that was the factor that most contributed to my having an amazing college experience. Yes, the English department was great. But in four years, I only once took a class in a lecture hall - even for my required core classes, I was in small classrooms, knew the professor, and was never taught by a TA. I joined the school newspaper and was able to be active and take on leadership positions quickly because there wasn't a ton of competition. Same with the theater department, where students could lead their own projects and try out new roles (like me, a stage manager, trying out directing and acting), because there were opportunities for everyone. And because of this, even though I never checked out the school's performing arts department before arriving, I ended up focusing more on theater during college, adding Theater as a second major, and ended up in a career that combines both English and Theater.
ReplyDeleteSo I would agree with Adam in that you should look at the areas you want to study, but criteria like location and size of the school can be just as - if not more - important.
I initially chose the absolute wrong school and wrong major. Mostly because I thought I needed to major in something that could get me to a specific type of career in a place with a program to support it. In a place where I always thought I wanted to go. After I effectively failed out (I won't lay the blame entirely on the Philadelphia Public School system), I had some time to think about the major and environment I wanted. My second choice was considerably better for me. Same for the major. And, if anyone's wondering, I have a degree in English and am, so far, a pretty successful computer programmer (in fact, some of the best developers I've worked with have had no degree at all, other degrees in English, Poli Sci, Music, Theater, Film, or Psychology. Point is, it's not always about what you study, but what you know how to do, and this is especially true once you get actual job experience.)
ReplyDeleteTo me, college is about learning how to think and the experience that comes with being there. I second (or third or fourth) the sentiment about having diversity to your classes. Especially if you can take things that are cross-disciplinary but very complementary. It was amazing to me how classes in three different departments all came together in the end.
It's been mentioned, but don't ignore the importance of your academic environment. The size of the school and classes (my TA and lecture experience at my original school wasn't positive), the setting and location, diversity of the student body, diversity of academic disciplines, types of extracurricular life, and the level of academic dedication all matter a lot more than you realize. I have an anthropology minor. I didn't even know I was interested in that until halfway through my second college. Keep your options open, try new things.
All in all, I agree with everyone else. When you find the right school, you'll know.
(Sorry if this was a bit rambly.)
Not to be a Georgia booster, but, you know, nationally recognized for both....
ReplyDeleteAm I remembering correctly that you can actually combine your undergrad and grad education for vet school? If you're at an undergrad institution that has a vet school? It looks like you can at Georgia, at least.
I remember how miserable you were at that first school -- it was the totally wrong social environment. Where you ended up make much, much more sense.
ReplyDeleteI think this is fabulous advice, mostly because it is how I picked my college, and I LOVED COLLEGE. Well, how I picked my pool of colleges to apply to anyway. The final decision came down to $$, which as a mostly-umemployed career-adrift but debt-free 20-something is really important to my general well-being. I found this book (well, a much older edition of that book) helpful in getting a feel for which schools would have the urban campus and varied student life I wanted. Best wishes for an awesome college experience, young reader!
ReplyDeleteThere are some people who know every step of their life while they are in high school. Most people aren't like that. I went to the right school for me, but I went through half a dozen majors and ended up just taking the classes I was interested in and took the degree they gave me. So if you are indecisive (like me), look for places that don't lock you in and give you a lot of freedom.
ReplyDeleteAlso recognize that college isn't like high school. If you went to a big high school, know that it would be a very small college. High school social life isn't anything like college social life. Greek life isn't anything like it is in the movies/tv (except the frat meetings in Animal House, they were dead on). I want to echo what other people said about visiting schools. There's only so much you get on the tour. Even if you don't do overnights at the colleges you are looking at, try to visit friends at different types of school to get an impression of what they are like. And see what students at the schools you look at do when they are not in class/over the summer/after they graduate. See where you fit in. And good luck!
I completely agree with that first paragraph. If you are undecided as to your major (and really most students are at age 18- some guess right and some end up changing), then look at what resources are available to help you explore and make a decision. Also look at how easy (or not) it is to change majors once you're there. I advise/teach exploratory students at a large public university. I know at some schools, undecided students kind of get parked in a corner and ignored until they choose a major; here we have a whole program to help them decide. Unfortunately, we also have a very decentralized campus and it's not always easy to change your major once you do decide. These are things I imagine most high school students don't even think about let alone know how to investigate, but if you come up with a few "finalists," maybe ask an advisor on campus what would happen if you decided to change your major once you were there.
ReplyDeleteI applied to 8 colleges, but barring massive scholarships coming my way (they didn't - curse of the middle class) I already knew which college I'd be going to when I sent in all my apps. Hell, I knew it when I was 12. I went to SUNY Binghamton (now known, appallingly, as Binghamton University) and it was the best University in the state system, so it was a foregone conclusion.
ReplyDeleteI explain all this just to say that someone with a good attitude can have a fabulous college experience almost anywhere. I went to a school full of people who majored in drunkenness (I don't drink), full of people from Long Island (who I was trying to get away from), and full of Jewish people (I wanted diversity). The school was big enough that I found amazing people who were academically minded, involved in tons of extracurriculars, and never slept. And many of those Jewish drunkards from Long Island turned out to be pretty great people too. The professors were amazing, and unlike my sister, I had a lot of lecture hall classes (I was a chem major and all those early classes are big at most schools) and didn't really mind a bit because I also had small classes in my music minor from the beginning. I got to do all sorts of things in my extracurriculars that my friends at other schools didn't get to do because Binghamton couldn't afford to give us a faculty advisor.
I will say that you should, as many have said, look at the student experience - what your classmates will be like, what you can study and get involved in, and what your interaction with your profs will be like - but don't get seduced by amenities. Yes, some schools will have much more beautiful facilities than others, some will offer you maid service in your dorm, fancy dining options, etc etc. Those things are nice, but they're not necessary. (Yes, I have a bias here, having gone to a school without those things.) One of the best things about college is that you get to learn to be a grown up while still having a safety net. So I am thrilled that I went to a place that didn't coddle me - where I did my own laundry, cleaned (or didn't clean) my own room, dealt with the consequences of my actions, and had the freedom to run school activities and do independent studies and generally be treated like and adult. I'm not saying you can't do all those things at a school with nice amenities, but don't assume your college education will be automatically better for having them.
Whatever you do, go visit. First time I saw both my college and my law school was at orientation. It all worked out fine for me, but it made for a very nerve-wracking summer.
(And ditto what everyone said about specialized programs above. I didn't go to a pure music school because I wasn't 100% sure I wanted a career in music, and I was pretty sure I also wanted to major in chemistry. But I'm very glad I went to a school with strong programs in both, and would not have been happy if one had been unavailable to me.)
I went through the college process a couple years ago (and got some great advice from you all!), and I agree with much of what's already been said. Definitely visit as many schools as you can, especially if you're not sure about big school v. small school (and don't just talk to your tour guide - find some other students who will honestly tell you the ups and downs.) Moneywise, many private schools do give out a lot of money, both need-based and merit-based. Futhermore, while it's true that larger schools generally have better science programs, there are some small schools that do have good science and the lack of grad students means that undergrads get to do research with professors (after spending the summer on campus working with a professor, one of my friends is getting her name on a paper and going to a conference next year to present.) I have to go to class and attempt to speak Italian now, but I have so many feelings about this topic and may hop back in later with more. Oh, and if you're using college confidential, take everything with a huge grain of salt. And look at the Claremont Colleges! They are actually the best.
ReplyDeleteI went to School B for the preview weekend, because I had gotten into School A, which was the school I had wanted to go to through all of high school. At School B, it was the first shorts-weather weekend after a long winter, and everyone was hanging out outside. A cute guy with a British accent showed me around.
ReplyDeleteThen I went to School A, with my mom. It was raining.
So, I went to School B.
Incredibly bad decision-making. Incredibly awesome experience, not because my mom wasn't there and it was always sunny (she visited (not often enough) and it snowed (too often), not because the upper-classmen were all cute and British-accented, but for a few reasons that I wouldn't have been able to predict even if I had been careful at decision-making.
Go with your gut; don't dig yourself a debt hole incompatible with your post-college plans; try to find your niche and yet meet people outside of it; keep your grades up and if you hate it, transfer.
This is based purely on my personal experience - I wish I'd left my hometown. Sure I got to go to a pretty good (cheap!) state school that was right in my backyard, but I still wish I'd taken the opportunity of college to see a different part of the country. Or hell, just a different part of the state. And part of that is that I think if you go somewhere completely different from your hometown (geographically, culturally, population) for college and even if you hate it (Like the weather's awful or you can't stand the local accent or can't get a good steak sandwich or whatever) you'll then have a better rationale for where you want to live as an adult. And moving as part of your career later won't be so scary.
ReplyDeleteAnd of course there's always the Sports Guy's advice to choose a warm weather school:
"And while we're here, with the college application season wrapping up, allow me to make my annual case for everyone to apply to warm-weather schools. Don't spend four years in cold weather. There's no reason. Go south, go west, but go. And if they have a good sports team, even better.
I know people who attended the following schools: Pepperdine, the University of California at Santa Barbara, USC, UCLA, Rollins, North Carolina, Arizona, Arizona State and the University of Texas. Here's how many of them regretted their choices: Zero. Meanwhile, the majority of my friends attended cold-weather schools … and only a handful of them would travel down that same road again. Again, why spend four years of your life in cold weather when you don't have to do it? And why pick a college with crummy sports when you don't have to do it? Beyond everything else, remember this above all: It doesn't matter where you went to college as much as what you did when you got there. I have successful friends who went to every type of school; I even have successful friends who never graduated from college. So don't stress out about it, expand your horizons, don't be afraid to take a chance and please know that I'm telling you this only because I wish somebody had told me."
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/081226
One thing that surprised me during my college search and eventualy during my years at college was the importance of location. I applied to a bunch of bucolic east-coast schools and Northwestern. I never imagined wanting to go to school in or near a major city until i visited Northwestern. When I visited, we did the usual campus visitation stuff, and then we went to a Cubs game. The fact that I could walk from campus to the El, get on a train and be at Wrigley in about 25 minutes was a revelation. Now, I don't know what it says about me that Wrigley field and public transit helped me decide where to go to college, but I do know that Chicago ended up being a huge part of my college experience. Further, that being on a real campus outside of the city, but with easy transit to the city, ended up being a perfect fit for me.
ReplyDeleteShort version: When you visit schools, spend some time off-campus. You will certainly be doing that as a student, so try to determine if the area away from but close to campus is somewhere you want to spend time.
I agree that getting away from your home/region is a good move. I feel like I'm a bad idea machine on this question, because I stayed near home for financial reasons, ended up at a small school where I was a big fish, and while I had a good academic experience, got into a terrific graduate school and ended up with far less debt than my friends, I would pretty much give anything to have made the money/student loan thing work and to have had a real adventure/actual college experience. Grad school was my quasi-college experience, and it's just not the same. I would have much preferred a larger school with more course options and more to explore (and a music scene, but that's just me).
ReplyDeleteI applied and got into my alma mater, Occidental, early decision, choosing that route because I did know after visiting it and several others, talking to professors and students, that it was right for me. I wanted a small school, was fortunate to have a grandfather that made financial issues less of a concern when it came to education, and I wanted to be in a big city in California. So that narrowed my prospects when touring considerably. There is a lot of merit to the advice everyone here has offered. I would also recommend seeing if there are alumni of schools you're interested in living in your area or who are willing to talk by phone or email -- recent graduates are a great resource.
ReplyDeleteI'm surprised to be the first one to say this, but here goes: Apply to Amherst. If you get in, go there. If not, it really doesn't matter; it's an (n-1)-way tie.
ReplyDeleteI kid, of course.
I did everything wrong--i picked 6 schools that had the academic programs I was interested in and "sounded good" but most of them I had not visited (I lived abroad when I was in high school). I also came from a small high school and thought I wanted a big metropolitan school. So when it came time to decide, I picked the biggest school in the biggest city out of all the schools I got into.
ReplyDeleteUm, yeah, I HATED my Freshman year. Had a very hard time adjusting and realized I very badly missed being in a small, close-knit environment. Also, urban school=crime which completely freaked me out since I spent my high school living in a very safe, sedate Asian city.
I was too stubborn to transfer. I stayed, majored in two very different majors (and got my small, close-knit environment once I got deeper into my major and the classes got smaller), and importantly, met some of my best friends there, including my husband.
Would I have done things differently? Probably. But do I regret my choice? No. So much of college is what you make of it, not what you *think* it will be. And while sometimes it is bumpy and scary, it is usually not a total disaster.
Everyone is offering such great advice here, but I want to second what Marsha says above - you can have a great college experience just about anywhere! I've worked with students in college admissions that had a "dream school," and I always worried about what would happen if/when they didn't get in. There is rarely one perfect anything, including college. Your experience, both academic and otherwise, will be what you make of it. Pick the place that you think will be the best for all the reasons people are outlining here - financial, academic, social, etc. - and then, when you get there, that's when the real work AND fun start. Explore new things, meet people, study hard, have fun.
ReplyDeleteI'll also add that having one path in mind can still lead to all sorts of other things. I went into college as a journalism major, convinced I would be a writer. The supervisor at my summer job knew someone on campus that was looking for student workers who knew how to write. I started working in PR in the athletic department as a sophomore, and I've been in college athletics ever since (20 years now!). GOOD LUCK!
To echo Adam's point about the "gut feeling" with an anecdote he'll especially appreciate: My younger brother came to visit me at Yale during my freshman year. As we dodged traffic on Elm Street on our way to class, he looked at me, puzzled, and said, "Wait -- you have to cross city streets to get to class?" I said, "Well, yeah, we're right in the middle of a city." He said, "Huh -- that's not really what I pictured when I thought of 'college.'"
ReplyDeleteHe went to Amherst.
You have to go and visit the schools, and not just for the official tour. You definitely need to talk to students, eat in the dining halls, go to classes, and even stay overnight if you can.
ReplyDeleteGrowing up in Nashville, I was convinced that I wanted to go to a school in a big city. Columbia and Penn were at the top of my list. But during one of my college trips Up North, I decided to visit Cornell as well. I took one step on campus and something in my head just clicked. I just knew that was where I was going to college. I got in early decision and it remains one of the best decisions I have ever made. I live in a big city now and love it, but I needed the sense of community that comes with a true "college" environment during that time. And Cornell is as much of an identity as it is a school--you forge unbreakable bonds when you're all walking five miles to and from class in ten feet of snow, uphill both ways.
This identity and community has become really important to me as an unemployed law school graduate. There are lots of Cornell alumni in my new city, and everyone I've reached out to has been very responsive and eager to help.
Not to make a shameless plug, but if she really wants to do veterinary science, Cornell's grad program is #1 in the country. I would recommend going to any school where she can get a good science foundation, then coming to Ithaca :)
Final piece of advice? Don't change your mind halfway through and decide "well, I like to argue, and I want to help people--I'll go to law school!" Seriously, don't do it.
While this school is one of my alma mater's arch-rivals, if you're interested in journalism and veterinary medicine, check out Michigan State. Aside from having top notch J and vet schools (which you obviously wouldn't take classes at as an undergrad, but could provide great research opportunities) they also have one of the top environmental journalism programs in the country with great publication and internship opportunities where you could combine those interests. Said program is also kind of run by my father and if you do check out MSU, I'd be happy to set up a meeting with him and/or my best friend who has an awesome full time journalism job at a midsize paper (which is kind of a big deal for a 24 year old in this job market) and took undergrad classes both at MSU and another prestigious Midwestern journalism school.
ReplyDeleteI was really, really, bad at picking what college to go to. Basically, I was accepted into a program that's almost impossible to get into (5 people a year) and they offered me a lot of scholarship money. They had a current student call my house and I think I said something along the lines of "I guess I'm going there. Stop calling me." So I ended up at an extremely prestigious theater school in Chicago....and I hated it. I felt trapped into a career in theater and like I was hemmoraging money (while the amount of undergraduate debt I was going to accrue seems like nothing compared to my friends, it was more than I was personally comfortable with. The academic environment outside of my theater classes wasn't challenging me and I didn't find the students inspiring. In the mean time, my best friend was attending Northwestern and I spent a lot of time hanging out up there--it felt more like what college was supposed to feel like to me.
I left Chicago halfway through my freshman year and enrolled in my hometown Community College. In high school, I was a high achieving smart-ass who hated her hometown and I never would have dreamed of going to that CC--but going there was the best decision I ever made. I took 18 credits/semester, worked, lived at home and saved up a ton of money. I had incredible math and science instructors that were passionate about helping me fill in the gaps in my high school education. I was a section editor of my college newspaper. I went on alternative spring break to a homeless shelter in Philadelphia. I spent a year there, at the end of which, I applied to Smith, Northwestern and the University of Michigan. I was accepted to all three and ended up at Michigan, it was a Big Ten school with a rich intellectual life, and, as I had in-state tuition, it was a fraction of the cost of Northwestern.
Good community colleges are great. But I do want to note, that if I had gone there straight out of high school, I think I would have been miserable. I needed that semester to assert my independence. I needed that semester to get so drunk that my roommate and I decided to spend the night in a 24 hr laundromat instead of trying to find our way back to the dorm (which was 2 blocks away).
I'm now a proud UMich grad (Umich grads are really proud, we're kind of obnoxious) living debt-free in New York City writing for theater and film (and tending bar!). I don't think I could have had a better college experience, even though mine was a really roundabout one. While I ended up a writer at one of the nation's best schools for writing, that was just a happy accident. When I left community college, I wanted to major in art history (which I did), while finishing up pre-med requirements (which I did not). The breadth of excellence at Michigan allowed me to explore my interests and indulge my insatiable curiosity. The price (after scholarships and awards, I actually made money on college) [...]
I'm Canadian, and the whole US college thing is kinda foreign to us. But I will add 3 things:
ReplyDelete1) Liberal Arts degrees are more or less useless on their own. Fun and super interesting, but not particularly useful. I know, because my degree is in African Women's Studies. (University of Toronto). If I had it all to do over, I would take engineering.
2) If you end up in Journalism, don't forget that a science background will serve you in great stead here. There are really good jobs in the field for scientifically literate people who can also write.
Add these two points together and you get: Pick the college with the stronger basic science / veterinary science programs. You can always become a journalist with a science degree. The same is NOT true if you decide to be a vet.
Unless you plan to go on to grad school in a very specific Liberal Arts area (English, Sociology etc.), then most science or engineering degrees work well if you are applying to Law schools, or MBA programs etc.
Oh I so agree whole-heartedly on this. I am constantly telling the high-schoolers I work with the same thing. You grow and change so much during college. You really have to pick the best environment for you and you HAVE to visit. Websites and marketing depts do much to make a school seem a certain way but until you are on the campus and talking to the teachers, you have no idea. I dreamt of going to those schools that had glamorous names, etc. but ended up at a state school for undergrad that was smaller than I had anticipated. Turns out, I needed to be a big fish in a small pond at that point in my life. Later, when I knew where I was going a bit more and had more confidence in myself, I went to a larger grad school with a well-known name and had a great experience but was glad I already had my undergrad done first.
ReplyDeleteGo Blue!
ReplyDeleteI'm another who looked only at schools that were nowhere near my home. I couldn't wait to get out of Tampa and into a "big" northeastern city. Philadelphia won out mostly because I had extended family here, which greatly helped ease my transition into that new chapter of my life.
ReplyDelete*Waves to fellow NU alum* Personally, I hardly ever went into Chicago, but I LOVED knowing that I COULD go if I wanted to. And nothing beat hanging out on the Lakefill (horrible name, gorgeous place) looking down Lake Michigan to see the Chicago skyline. I agree that location is a huge part of NU's appeal, and could definitely be important in general.
ReplyDeleteSame here. I wanted to flee, but I knew I had to stay in-state, because it was what we could afford, so I went as far north as possible, to FSU, though Mom was pushing for UCF, of course, since it was an hour away. I did also apply to Mount Holyoke, because of their medieval studies program, but that was just wishful thinking. I can't even remember if I got in. I doubt it. Anyway, I didn't visit any schools just for the sake of visiting, because I'm sure my father thought that was silly, so I can't endorse that method. And I probably would not have ended up at FSU if I had visited.
ReplyDeleteA couple other things to consider, with regards to the journalism field: there's a lot of networking going on there, so you'd want to consider a school's networking reputation. Yale TV writers always hire each other. Does the school you're looking at have a strong J school alumni network? It sucks to have to think about your future like that, when you're still dealing with your present, but it's worth looking at. Also, make sure the school has as much access as possible to the most current technologies. Dude, I learned how to splice together reel-to-reel tape in college. In 1994. I PAID for that class. What a waste. Make sure the school is going to provide you with EVERYTHING you need to join the workforce as ready as possible. That it eagerly embraces all new technology and has courses set up to do that and educate you on those technologies.
Four hours drive away from home always seemed to me to work well (or at least it worked for me). Far enough that my parents couldn't drop in on me, far enough that I couldn't go home constantly, but close enough that I could easily go home for the weekend, and I didn't have to fly. I could go to my morning classes and still make it home for Passover seder, in other words. I always felt bad for my sister, who had a 7-8 hour drive back to college each time. That's a long way to go for just a weekend.
ReplyDeleteNo, you don't.
ReplyDeleteBizarre parallel universes - I, too, applied to FSU and Mount Holyoke (and University of Texas). Got into all 3 but chose FSU and loved it. For many, many reasons. Couldn't agree more to those who mention the visits. I had planned to attend UT, went to visit and had an instant hatred of the campus. Way too claustrophobic. I had to skip it for the college years then come back to Austin immediately after graduation!
ReplyDeleteYeah, the 7-8 hour distance from college to home was tough. (And admittedly, I rejected going to my sister's school purely because she had gone there, which perhaps wasn't the best criteria, but I was looking to make my own way.) I don't think that the reality of that would have changed my college decision, but it certainly made it tough to get home for a weekend - even a long weekend, when traveling took up the bigger part of two days. On on the one hand, it made me much closer to my college friends and community, since I could only go home on long breaks. On the other hand, during a time of family emergency when I really would have liked to be home more, it was nearly impossible.
ReplyDeleteAnd as someone said earlier, your college location helps you figure out where you want to live. I went to college thinking I'd never want to live in a big city. And I LOVED my rural, out of the way college town, way in northwestern NY. But I realized I wouldn't want to make a life there, and I now love my life in NYC. And I really like being closer to a large part of my family.
Speaking of visiting schools, go in the winter if you can. I find it hysterical that my college brochure had pictures of kids sitting out on the quad in the sunshine. Sitting outside? Happened maybe two weeks at the start of the year and three weeks at the end. This was Geneseo, New York, and winter is LONG there. (It snowed one week before my graduation.) However, college kids certainly know how to have fun with heaps of snow and hills of ice...
ReplyDeleteOh...yes. Esp if the school is not in the same geographic/climate region as you are. I lived in SE Asia for 8 years before college. I went to school in Philadelphia. My freshman year was the blizzard of 93-94. It was quite an eye-opening experience. Fun. But shocking.
ReplyDeleteJenn, that was the year that drove me out of New England for good.
ReplyDeleteYou really need to consider which school's fellow applicants are most likely to run a great pop culture blog post graduation.
ReplyDeleteThere's some information I might have done a better job researching in terms of academics, but none of it would have altered my course, or improved it. It was important, as all have said before, to know yourself well enough to know your basics (big or small? pre-professional or liberal arts? Greek? Etc.) Even though I honestly had no real clue what liberal arts meant when I was in high school, I thought I wanted it and I was somehow right.
Agree that visits are very important, and I really believe in following your gut, even if it's about something really dumb or tiny. For example, one offhand comment by the tour guide at a particular school just turned me off instantly. It was only one guy's opinion, and it wasn't, like, offensive or anything, but it didn't feel right to me. I didn't even apply, even though it's a great school. In the years since I've met many, many people from this school (a disproportionate number, in fact) and my gut take on the student body had some merit. It wouldn't have been the right place.
A sobering revelation of my post grad years . . . I've worked with, and went to grad school with, many brilliant people who followed all sorts of life paths and went to all sorts of schools and smart people in the right field find their way. The brand name on your diploma isn't nearly as important as what you do with yourself during--and after--school. Find a place you can be grow. There are amazing--and not-amazing--opportunities everywhere.
SUNY B is at or near the top of the n-way tie for second!
ReplyDeleteWhen I visited Northwestern in early April, it was raining and cold and the tour guide was wearing a full length down coat that looked like a sleeping bag. When our tour walked by one of the dorms, a student opened his window and yelled, "Go to Duke!" I still ended up at Northwestern (having grown up in Ohio, grey and snowy wasn't a problem for me), but I thought it was hilarious and a friend of mine on the tour didn't end up at Duke, but did end up at Emory in Georgia (due in no small part to Chicago weather).
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